Curse

Cynn Evennia · Sep 04, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

First of all i want to point out that especulation is one of the main motivations of any thread, this one in particular. In that spirit please feel free to especulate at will.

ATTENTION SPOIL WARNING

I want to know your opinions on what do you expect about Nightfall in terms of its storyline. Since it has been anounced as a PvE chapter this feature is very important.

Personally id love a nonlinear storyline like Prophecies, with surprising twists, betrayals, trips to new lands and a slow development of the story... suspense so to speak. Id hate an "all vs the bad guy" story like in Factions. Nevertheless Factions at the ending closes all NPC's personal stories; that is totally non-existent in Prophecies, and these loose ends gave me the feeling of "oh thats it? wow... ok then". So a nonlinear story thats ties up the loose ends is my minimal request.

I know that the storyline will continue, with the very same NPC characters and others that will show up in due time. Since i find several gaps and inconsistencies on the storyline so far let me present you some of the unsolved mysteries i have gathered. Maybe you will have a better idea and will help me understand the bizarre and hidden logic.

Prophecies

1. What happens with Ascalon, Shiverpeaks and Kryta after the Lich and his Titans are destroyed ? What news of the Charr and the White Mantles?
2. What are the Mursaats? Aliens? Gods? Where do they came from?
3. What is the real meaning of Ascension? Because the only thing that matters vs the "Unseen gods" (Mursaats) is infusion, and you dont need to be ascended for that.

Factions

1. Why Shiro wants to become human again? Man, you made all become jade and stone just yelling, you are unseen and untouchable as an envoy, you corrupt flesh and soul, you have hordes of afflicted, you almost killed Kuunavang... so why you choose to become mortal?
2. What was the business between Mhenlo and the Kurzicks? They revere him and think he was dead, but why?
3. Was the former emperor going to kill Shiro? Why Shiro just followed the foreteller's advice? was she a devil or something?
4. In the Factions cinematic Shiro has an evil aura after hit by Vizu, but it does not correspond with the hesitating Shiro in the cinematic of Harvest temple.

Nightfall

1. What is the emperor doing in Elona? Thats gives me the creeps, fearing of a chimera. I know theres is a thread about it, im just pointing it out again for the sake of completeness.
2. The main NPC character in Factions (after Mhenlo) is Togo, a ritualist. What will be the main NPC in Elona, dervish or paragon? My guess is paragon.

Ok, thats all from my part. Any feedback and/or answer is welcome.

Ezekial Bain · Sep 04, 2006, 10:12 AM // 10:12

While it's a long (long) way from perfect I did like the fact that the Factions storyline was a *LOT* tighter than the Prophecies one. Prophecies certainly conjured up a grander sense of epic scale but it kinda jumped all over the place and deffinetly felt like several differant storys patched together (eg. in a way the MAIN story doesn't start at all until you hit Lions Arch), and many of the storylines are left without being resolved (unlike Factions which, love it or hate it did a good job of wrapping everything up).

I agree that it'd be nice to learn exactly WHAT Shiro was thinking and the odd change from conflicted/manipulated (?) character 200 years ago to manical cackling bad guy in the present that our heroes fight.

Besides that though Factions is basically wrapped up. Yes the Luxons and Kurzicks look like they're gonna start fighting again but oh well.

Prophecies did need more closure on issues though. I guess a few things are implied; I always saw Sorrows Furnace as the "last retreat" of the Stone Summit after Dagnar dies in Thunderhead Keep but that's not made explicit. Also, while you could think the Charr retreated after the deatruction of the Titans that again is not made explicit. And a small quest in Kryta about restoring the monarchy doesn't exactly explain what's going to happen to Tyria's only remaining beautiful country.

So yes... more resolution in Nightfall please!

Knightsaber Sith · Sep 04, 2006, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Prohecies
2. It's already been revealed that the mursaat were the guardians of Orr.

Paperfly · Sep 04, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Er, what's non-linear about Prophecies' storyline? The ability to get a Droks run is about all I can think of.

Quote:

3. What is the real meaning of Ascension? Because the only thing that matters vs the "Unseen gods" (Mursaats) is infusion, and you dont need to be ascended for that.

Ascension allows you to see the Mursaat, that's why they're referred to as the Mantle's "unseen gods"! Though, to be honest, I find the build-up to them is quite hard to follow through the plotline unless you scrutinise every cutscene.

...Of course, the Droks run breaks this as it allows people to get to the Southern Shiverpeaks missions sans Ascension.

Shoitaan · Sep 04, 2006, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knightsaber Sith

Prohecies
2. It's already been revealed that the mursaat were the guardians of Orr.

NO, what the hell? Where did you get that?

The lich/vizier is linked to Orr, Mursaat have nothing to do with Orr.

Cynn Evennia · Sep 04, 2006, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

Er, what's non-linear about Prophecies' storyline? The ability to get a Droks run is about all I can think of.

I used nonlinear to indicate the twists on the story and the slow unveil of the Prophecies. I used it in opposition to the linear Factions story where "the good guys are always good and the bad are always bad" along with the "all vs Shiro". Sorry if that use of linear and nonlinear was not very accurate.

I never meant to talk about the gameplay, which is indeed kinda linear with primary quests and mission to make the story advance, and it became extremely linear in Factions without the slight chance to get a run. I hope Nightfall will not be like that since it has been said that there will be choices to make, KOTOR-like my guess.

About Mursaats, well they seem to be unrelated to Orr:

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Mursaat

That link and references therein indicate that the Mursaats were found in the Maguuma jungle and that they helped the Krytans vs the Charr invasion, but it does not answer my question about what do the Mursaats are and where do they come from. I like to know because i find them fascinating (if we were able to choose a race, Mursaat would be mine: SA LFG...

jk)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

Ascension allows you to see the Mursaat, that's why they're referred to as the Mantle's "unseen gods"!

Thanks, one question answered! But now it seems natural to ask why ascension grants us this favour? What are the Mursaats exactly that just the favour of the gods allows us to see them? Indeed a fascinating race they are.

A guess: due to the "God" we will face in Nightfall, the Paragon as a Holy Warrior, the geographical position of the ruins of Orr and its "City of the Gods" Arah we will have the last loose end tied up in the very heart of Orr... maybe

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Orr

Sir fredman · Sep 04, 2006, 02:49 PM // 14:49

nice guesses guys by the time you know it, you'll be the first ones to know the whole truth about about Guild Wars. =)

LadyNilene · Sep 04, 2006, 03:50 PM // 15:50

What about Gwen!? lol

natuxatu · Sep 04, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

OMG I'm so with you. For some reason like the thing I want to know the most about is Gwen hehe.. she is like the first henchie you ever come in contact with and interact with.

P.S. I liked the Prophices story better mainly for the reasons listed above.. i like how it took a little longer for it to flesh out and along with the twists in the plots and the build up ect. Factions was good too though except I also am very confused as to why he'd want to be alive and mortal in a world he pretty much messed up. Not to mention he already had way more power than he would as a mortal. So yeah that just made him look stupid lol

SirJackassIII · Sep 04, 2006, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Prophecies

2. What are the Mursaats? Aliens? Gods? Where do they came from?
3. What is the real meaning of Ascension? Because the only thing that matters vs the "Unseen gods" (Mursaats) is infusion, and you dont need to be ascended for that.

Factions

2. What was the business between Mhenlo and the Kurzicks? They revere him and think he was dead, but why?

4. In the Factions cinematic Shiro has an evil aura after hit by Vizu, but it does not correspond with the hesitating Shiro in the cinematic of Harvest temple.

Nightfall

2. The main NPC character in Factions (after Mhenlo) is Togo, a ritualist. What will be the main NPC in Elona, dervish or paragon? My guess is paragon.

P2: The Mursaat are the Guardians of the Gate of Komalie, and went to take over Kryta to kill the Chosen (you) because the Flameseeker Prophecies say the CHosen will kill the Mursaat. It is believed the Mursaat are a race of Ancient spellcasters.
P3: Ascension makes it able to see the Mursaat (Unseen Gods before), and should give you something of a Power Boost in the form of 50k xp.

F2: The business between Mhenlo and the Kurzicks isn't quite clear, but they think he's dead after hearing stories of the Searing and the Ascension trials etc.

N2: (quoting myself from another forum) http://www.teeteehaa.de/~gc2006live/

Pic nr 14, Woman called Morgahn, Dervish, is on the cover of the CE, seems to be an allied NPC. Paragons seem to have pretty high ranks in the army as well, but that was kind of expected with all the "Arch Angels" and Leadership and all.
So, both are still possible.

GloryFox · Sep 04, 2006, 08:32 PM // 20:32

As I read this and study the lore of GW I think of the quest "Blood and Smoke".

Quote:

Dark Root the Druid from the Blood and Smoke quest
"Let me look into the dark... I see a great beast, a great cat... a lion. This lion hungers. He is devouring... the forest... the entire forest... Nay, the entire world! A host of gleaming angels... no not angels but birds... carrion birds... bright and terrible as the sun accompany this lion. All falls before his hunger until naught is left but bitter ashes. That is all I see."

Even though one of Evennia's men state. "This is a dire vision indeed. The lion he saw is obviously Kryta or the White Mantle but what of the carrion birds? I must consult with Evennia. Perhaps she can interpret this vision. Thank you my friend, for everything you have done for us." You can tell he was unsure and was unsure if the Lion was really Kryta. This leaves me to believe the Lion is something else more sinister like the Ancient Dhuum. It is possible the Mussat serve Dhaam. It is possible Dhaam and the Mussat are related?

This would explain the Searing, the Envoy's at war with one another, Etc (like they [Envoys] are trying to choose a side and yet keep quiet on cosmic events) Maybe there is another prophesies about the chosen destroying what Genth was unable to complete?

Overall I hope Nightfall does fill in some gaps. With each chapter of a good story Guild Wars will open new questions and grant us answers we might not want to hear.

Urban_Nomad · Sep 05, 2006, 01:47 AM // 01:47

I'm pretty sure that the Seer stated that both it and the the Mursaat were from another world, they may have arrived here through the Rift or other means, but they're not from Tyria or the Door of Komalie.

Also, people always assume that power means everything, it seems. Shiro may have had other reasons for trying to become mortal. For one, I always got the impression that becoming an Envoy was a punishment. They have to lead the dead to paradise, they say, but it sure doesn't sound like they get to go to paradise themselves. And we all know that what Shiro did was really bad, to put it mildly, so becoming an Envoy sure as well shouldn't be a reward. Plus the other Envoys don't exactly look like heroes. I wouldn't want to be an envoy if that's the case, powers or not.

Also:

Dark Root the Druid from the Blood and Smoke quest
"Let me look into the dark... I see a great beast, a great cat... a lion. This lion hungers. He is devouring... the forest... the entire forest... Nay, the entire world! A host of gleaming angels... no not angels but birds... carrion birds... bright and terrible as the sun accompany this lion. All falls before his hunger until naught is left but bitter ashes. That is all I see."

I always thought the Lion was the Lich Lord, seeing as he is the one who really starts all the real destruction by using the Titans to take over Tyria. And of course, the Angel/Carrion birds are the Mursaat, who are evil but but don't do nearly as much as the Lich.

MY question is: Why did Shiro cause the Jade Wind when he died? What's so special about him? Is it just because he became an Envoy? In that case, we should have 4 other Jade Winds around the world somewhere. If not, then what the heck happened? In the manual, it says that Shiro began to drain the emperor's soul away with his "ill-gotten power." Where did Shiro get this ill-gotten power, and why was he draining the emperor's soul if that's the case? Admittedly, the game has a lot of differences from the manual, but still, why the Jade Wind?

SirJackassIII · Sep 05, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

I'm pretty sure that the Seer stated that both it and the the Mursaat were from another world, they may have arrived here through the Rift or other means, but they're not from Tyria or the Door of Komalie.

Also, people always assume that power means everything, it seems. Shiro may have had other reasons for trying to become mortal. For one, I always got the impression that becoming an Envoy was a punishment. They have to lead the dead to paradise, they say, but it sure doesn't sound like they get to go to paradise themselves. And we all know that what Shiro did was really bad, to put it mildly, so becoming an Envoy sure as well shouldn't be a reward. Plus the other Envoys don't exactly look like heroes. I wouldn't want to be an envoy if that's the case, powers or not.

Also:

Dark Root the Druid from the Blood and Smoke quest
"Let me look into the dark... I see a great beast, a great cat... a lion. This lion hungers. He is devouring... the forest... the entire forest... Nay, the entire world! A host of gleaming angels... no not angels but birds... carrion birds... bright and terrible as the sun accompany this lion. All falls before his hunger until naught is left but bitter ashes. That is all I see."

I always thought the Lion was the Lich Lord, seeing as he is the one who really starts all the real destruction by using the Titans to take over Tyria. And of course, the Angel/Carrion birds are the Mursaat, who are evil but but don't do nearly as much as the Lich.

MY question is: Why did Shiro cause the Jade Wind when he died? What's so special about him? Is it just because he became an Envoy? In that case, we should have 4 other Jade Winds around the world somewhere. If not, then what the heck happened? In the manual, it says that Shiro began to drain the emperor's soul away with his "ill-gotten power." Where did Shiro get this ill-gotten power, and why was he draining the emperor's soul if that's the case? Admittedly, the game has a lot of differences from the manual, but still, why the Jade Wind?

Lion would be the White Mantle, not the Lich, since the Mursaat don't accompagny the Lich.

The Jade Wind was caused because of Shiro killing the Emperor at a bad time to say the least. All the Emperors are Weh No Su, and during the Harvest Ceremony, they come in direct link with the Gods. When Shiro struck down the emperor, all the power of that link had to go somewhere, in this case Shiro, though he wasn't Weh No Su and couldn't connect with the gods that way, so the power stayed in Shiro. When he was killed, that power was again released along with Shiro's hatred and anger causing the Jade Wind.

Gairoh · Sep 05, 2006, 07:11 AM // 07:11

hmmm...good point there....

Shadowfrost · Sep 05, 2006, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

The Jade Wind was caused because of Shiro killing the Emperor at a bad time to say the least. All the Emperors are Weh No Su, and during the Harvest Ceremony, they come in direct link with the Gods. When Shiro struck down the emperor, all the power of that link had to go somewhere, in this case Shiro, though he wasn't Weh No Su and couldn't connect with the gods that way, so the power stayed in Shiro. When he was killed, that power was again released along with Shiro's hatred and anger causing the Jade Wind.

You know what? That's the first actual GOOD explanation of the Jade Wind, and why it didn't happen again when you kill him in Imperial Sanctum.

Quid Pro Quo · Sep 05, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfrost

You know what? That's the first actual GOOD explanation of the Jade Wind, and why it didn't happen again when you kill him in Imperial Sanctum.

I agree, that was a pretty damn good explanation.

Cynn Evennia · Sep 05, 2006, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

Lion would be the White Mantle, not the Lich, since the Mursaat don't accompagny the Lich.

I dont know because the carrion birds are the Lion's servants to my eyes, and the Mursaats clearly are not under the oders of the Mantles but vice versa. Moreover the Mantles are not trying to reduce the world to ashes.

That can be also interpreted as: The Lich and his undead, or even as Shiro and the Envoys or Shiro and the afflicted. Dark Oak is ambiguous enough to fit any plausible explanation. A point to ANET.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

The Jade Wind was caused because of Shiro killing the Emperor at a bad time to say the least. All the Emperors are Weh No Su, and during the Harvest Ceremony, they come in direct link with the Gods. When Shiro struck down the emperor, all the power of that link had to go somewhere, in this case Shiro, though he wasn't Weh No Su and couldn't connect with the gods that way, so the power stayed in Shiro. When he was killed, that power was again released along with Shiro's hatred and anger causing the Jade Wind.

Excellent explanation indeed, but it raises new questions: why was Shiro granted with the ability to absorb celestial power like the emperor's soul? Only the Weh No Su can do that. And how could he release such power to turn everything in jade and stone? Certainly he is the most powerful warrior on Cantha, but it is not enough justification for the jade wind.

Personally i think Shiro was possessed or something. Remember his hesitation in the Harvest ceremony temple: it seems he was manipulated by the Fortune teller. That "possession" or "a favour from a Dark lord" could explain the dark aura and the jade wind. Many especulation has been done around this point in the threads found in the Lore section here in guru.

I have great expectations for Nightfall, and id love to have all 3 chapters related in some way. Personally i really want the "dark lord" to be the "outcast god" that we will face in Nightfall, and that the Lich and Shiro were merely his instruments.

Mrscoombes · Sep 05, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

But I can see the mursaat with my lvl 5 unascended who got a run to droks...I always thought it was just to give you something to do.

Quid Pro Quo · Sep 05, 2006, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrscoombes

But I can see the mursaat with my lvl 5 unascended who got a run to droks...I always thought it was just to give you something to do.

Well your not suppose to skip through the story like that.

draxynnic · Sep 06, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfrost

You know what? That's the first actual GOOD explanation of the Jade Wind, and why it didn't happen again when you kill him in Imperial Sanctum.

Actually, my interpretation is that it DID happen when you kill him in Imperial Sanctum. However, this time the Adepts were ready for it.

When you kill him, he assumes a similar 'shouting' pose as with the original Jade Wind - however, at the time he makes the actual shout, the Adepts have hurried in to surround him and perform some kind of magic. When he screams, it's HIM that turns to jade.

My interpretation is that the Adepts are simply setting up a shield to contain the death-scream. Being so contained, the power of the death-scream focusses inwards and it's Shiro that gets turned to jade instead of the other half of Cantha.